Messenger Plus! Chat Log

Session Start: Tuesday, October 06, 2009

Session Start: Sunday, October 18, 2009

(6:23 PM) Breakfast is the:when i was your age, everything lagged
(6:23 PM) james:i like to be able to execute my actions when i want to
(6:23 PM) Breakfast is the:the internet came on phones
phone loines
(6:24 PM) Breakfast is the:right but
so what?
so it lags
it gives you an advantage
(6:24 PM) james:well you arent my age, i play games like warcraft 3 and counter strike source where there is sound network infastructure to ensure i dont lag
(6:24 PM) Breakfast is the:you can't blame lag for winning or losing.  it doesn't change your strategy
(6:24 PM) james:its not an advantage,
(6:24 PM) Breakfast is the:starcraft never lags for me on battle net
(6:24 PM) james:like i ssaid, I find it frustrating to lag
(6:25 PM) Breakfast is the:right, but since you can't control the lag, you might as well stop being frustrated by it
you can chose what frustrates you
(6:25 PM) james:no, i might ass well play a game that i dont lag in
(6:25 PM) Breakfast is the:you could do that.  but that would be sad, because we couldn't play together
sadness would flood over the land in a wave
(6:26 PM) james:indeed
(6:26 PM) Breakfast is the:well, i hope you chose not to be frustrated by a little lag in the future so we can play.
you almost beat me each time we played
it was neck and neck by the scores
(6:27 PM) Breakfast is the:most of the people i play with aren't even a challnge, so i prefer to play against someone intelligent
(6:27 PM) james:if it lags, i wont play
(6:27 PM) Breakfast is the:that's bratty
(6:27 PM) james:i played the first two games to completion becuase it didnt lag
(6:27 PM) Breakfast is the:lots of things in life are slow and frustrating
you just chose not to be bothered by it
(6:27 PM) james:no its not, stop trying to maniuplate me to feed your comfort
(6:27 PM) Breakfast is the:it lagged equally in all 3 games
(6:27 PM) james:why should i subject myself to uncomfortable experiences
(6:27 PM) Breakfast is the:the lag was identical in all situations
(6:27 PM) james:i find lag uncomfortable and unfun
(6:27 PM) Breakfast is the:but you played the first 2 games to completion in lag.
(6:27 PM) james:thus, i chose not to play in lag filled environments
(6:28 PM) james:i also choose not to be goaded into playing by being called pisssy and bratty
(6:28 PM) Breakfast is the:but you can make any situation comfortable and fun by perceiving it differently.
(6:28 PM) james:maybe it works on your other friends
(6:28 PM) Breakfast is the:it would be liberating to move out from under the spectre of feeling that external situations are frustrating
(6:29 PM) Breakfast is the:such liberation!
feel your soul take flight
(6:29 PM) james:i find one particular online game experience frustrating, lag, i  understand that not getting your way upsets you
but liberating yourself from such experiences causses syour soul to take flight
(6:29 PM) Breakfast is the:that's what i am asking you
i'm not frustreated by it.  
i'm intrigued
(6:29 PM) james:sure you are
(6:30 PM) james:intruiged is asking me questions
frustrated is calling me names
(6:30 PM) Breakfast is the:i didn't call you names
(6:30 PM) james:you called me pissy
then you called me bratty
(6:30 PM) Breakfast is the:those are adjective
names are nouns
(6:30 PM) james:when persuasion and your point of view fails, there is always semanticss
(6:30 PM) Breakfast is the:but it is true that when someone loses and blames lag or a mouse or lighting in the house, or their roommates hardcore techno blasting in the next room, and refuses to continue.. i mean, that's what most gamers call pissy
(6:31 PM) Breakfast is the:that's grammar, not semantics
(6:31 PM) Breakfast is the:but either way
(6:31 PM) james:anytime you want to pay for a game like warcraft 3 and play on the company's server without lag
let me know
(6:31 PM) Breakfast is the:games aren't through battle net
they are between individual computers
(6:31 PM) james:hosted on battle net
(6:32 PM) Breakfast is only sets up the games, individual computers host the games
(6:32 PM) james:thats incorrect
(6:32 PM) Breakfast is the:they communicate directly
without reference to battle net
you keep a connection to battle net
but that is not the location of the game
(6:32 PM) james:then why iss it i dont lag in warcraft 3
(6:32 PM) Breakfast is the:for instance
(6:32 PM) james:and i lag in iccup sserver for starcraft
(6:32 PM) Breakfast is the:well, you lagged playing me
(6:32 PM) james:and why is it my torrents are getting 100+kbps
(6:32 PM) Breakfast is the:its likely that if we played warcraft 3, we'd lag too
lag is not a factor of internet speed, its a factor of internet distance.
(6:33 PM) Breakfast is the:how many routers between our computers
what type of routers
what speed
what traffic
how our ISPs communicate
for instance, some ISPs on the west coast are communicated with via routes that go through southern US
(6:33 PM) james:its also funy that you would subscribe my annoyance with lag to fear of losing when in fact lag is probably the most highly intolerable environment amongst all gamers
(6:33 PM) Breakfast is the:they lag a lot with east coast players
(6:33 PM) james:thats why people with high pings get booted from sservers
(6:33 PM) Breakfast is the:but in a 1 v 1 RTS
(6:33 PM) james:its quite juvenile to warp a perspective
(6:33 PM) Breakfast is the:lag is not really anything
(6:34 PM) james:sure it is
(6:34 PM) Breakfast is the:there is no timing or accuracy required
(6:34 PM) james:lag is everything
(6:34 PM) Breakfast is the:i think the reason you are now arging to vehemently is that losing frustrates you, but that you perceive it consciously as a factor of some other mitigating circumstance
most people experience their frustrations as results of external situations beyond their control
(6:34 PM) Breakfast is the:and cn't identify the source of their feelings
(6:34 PM) james:thosse are a lot of innacurate words
(6:34 PM) Breakfast is the:thosse are
thosse truly are
(6:35 PM) james:for somone who wears a toque most of the year
(6:35 PM) Breakfast is the:but you would not know if they were accurate or not
you cant' know why you feel what you feel
(6:35 PM) james:and failed to groom himsself for a couple of thosse
(6:35 PM) Breakfast is the:now who's calling who names?
(6:35 PM) james:those are adjectives
and implications
(6:35 PM) Breakfast is the:actually groom is a verb
as is fail
(6:35 PM) james:i was mocking you not accurately describing my parts of speech
(6:35 PM) Breakfast is the:but either way, i don't know why you are taking this to this level.
(6:36 PM) Breakfast is the:that's corrent, you were not accurately describing your parts of speech.
we agree
(6:36 PM) james:im afraid its syou who have been constantly escalating the situtation since i informed you that i didnt want to play under lag
(6:36 PM) Breakfast is the:all i'm saying is i think you blamed lag because you find losing intolerable
and you felt you lost because of lag
(6:36 PM) james:a statement you failed to accept as you are hopelessly devoted to little niches of expertise
(6:36 PM) Breakfast is the:all i'm saying is ,win, lose, who cares
its not life or death
(6:37 PM) Breakfast is the:everyone is hopelessly devoted to little niches of experience
(6:37 PM) james:right so i dont understand why it iss you failed to accept my reason for not playing a 4th game
(6:37 PM) Breakfast is the:individual lives are little niches of experience.
(6:37 PM) james:if it is not life or death and merely a game
(6:37 PM) Breakfast is the:because i thikn you are being dishonest with yourself about the reason
(6:37 PM) james:it seems that you believe that your wants and needs vasstly exceed mine, or civility for that matter
(6:37 PM) Breakfast is the:and that i worry you are feeling frustration at losing a game, when i think you'd have more fun if you didn't feel frustration at losing, but just enjoyed playing, nomatter the circumstances.
(6:37 PM) james:you're a 30 year old who doesnt like hearing no
who do you think is being dishonest with themselvesS?
(6:38 PM) Breakfast is the:I am not telling myself that i don' tlike hearing no though.
i'm not disagreeing
i'm also 29
(6:38 PM) james:why is why you are being dishonest with yoursself
(6:38 PM) Breakfast is the:i'm agreeing with you that I dislike hearing no.
(6:38 PM) james:ass you are focusing on irrelevant parts of the conversation like you are 29 and not 30
(6:38 PM) Breakfast is the:we're being honest with me
what's irrelvant is my age at all
30, or 29
(6:38 PM) Breakfast is the:it doesnt' change anyhting
(6:38 PM) james:sure it is
its completely revelant
(6:39 PM) Breakfast is the:because my age creats lag
our age discrepancy is the source of the lag
(6:39 PM) james:im pointing out that immaturity and a failure to develop emotional intelligence is a common theme with you
if i can establish it in many parts of this conversastion
maybe you'll agree
(6:39 PM) Breakfast is the:i'm conducting myself maturely.  I'm trying to let you know that your response to this conversation bespeaks great frustration, but frustration that is under your control
you dont' ahve to feel antagonistic over video games.
you can enjoy even losing
i do
(6:40 PM) Breakfast is the:you can even enjoy lag
(6:40 PM) james:i don't feel antagnosstic over video games, i feel antagonistics towards people who attempt to maniuplate me into doing something i dont want to do
for rational reasons such as lag
no i cannot even enjoy lag
(6:40 PM) Breakfast is the:i'm not manipulting you, i'm directly stating in clear terms what i think you should do
(6:40 PM) james:that's what being a singular entity is all about
im entitled to enjoy and not enjoy what i wish
(6:40 PM) Breakfast is the:you are
(6:40 PM) james:the fact you would try to put so much energy into dissuading me of that for your pleasure is alarming
(6:40 PM) Breakfast is the:but as a friend, its my concern when i see someone experiencing distress over something trivial.  
(6:41 PM) james:no, a friend would accept that 3 games of starcraft, the last onelagging a lot more thahn the other two, is probably enough
(6:41 PM) Breakfast is the:they were lagging all the same
that's another element that distresses me
(6:41 PM) james:and would respect the friend's likes and dislikes and his or her desire to exercisse those through choice
(6:41 PM) Breakfast is the:when you felt more frustrated, you perceived the lag increasing
when it remained constant
that should alarm you
(6:41 PM) james:if i dont like eating pizza, and you like eating pizza, what you are doing is trying to shove pizza in my mouth
(6:42 PM) Breakfast is the:or at least, indicate that your subjective experience is created by your mood, not the other way around
(6:42 PM) james:that's not true at all
no, that's not true
(6:42 PM) james:i ssaid, its too laggy, 'gg', which means i considered the game over, and left
(6:42 PM) Breakfast is the:it is a pyschological fact that people's emotions create perceptions of the worl daround them moreso than the other way around.
(6:42 PM) james:i'm not playing until YOU are done playing
(6:42 PM) Breakfast is the:but all the games were equally laggy
(6:42 PM) james:im playing until I am done playing
(6:42 PM) james:see the difference?
(6:43 PM) james:do you rape and beat your girlfriend?
(6:43 PM) Breakfast is the:so i'm just concnered that your frustration reached a point where you perceived the lag at a different level, because its deferral.  you shouldnt' be so frustrated by a game.
i mean, if i can't get you to see it, it's not a big deal
(6:43 PM) james:you arent attempting to get me to see anything
you're attempting to continue indulging yourself in a game im not enjoying playing
(6:43 PM) Breakfast is the:but your response to that bit of info seems highly defensive.
(6:44 PM) james:and you are hearing 'no' and you MUST change that
(6:44 PM) Breakfast is the:well
i mean, at this point, i wouldnt' enjoy playing either
the converatoin has moved beyond trying to get you to play
(6:44 PM) Breakfast is the:i accept that you wont' play
(6:44 PM) james:and speaking of psychological facts, its a psychological fact that children from divorced families are far more self cenetered than those in married homes
(6:44 PM) Breakfast is the:i'm just interested in the nature of your response.
that's true.
i was reaised in a married home
as were you
(6:44 PM) james:i dont blame you specfically, i blame your environemnt, its taught you to be selfish and manipulative
(6:45 PM) Breakfast is the:but as a general rule, no trend indicates what will happen in an individual case
for instance
if 80% of people with red shirts can't read, and you meet someone with a red shirt, you don't know whether they can read or not.
(6:45 PM) Breakfast is the:they either CAN read, or CAN'T
its 1 or the other
(6:45 PM) james:if i see them stuttering through a picture book, i have a good indication thats the case
(6:45 PM) Breakfast is the:so, since we were both raised in married homes, its still possible one of us was raised to be combative and self centered, and the other not
or both
(6:46 PM) Breakfast is the:or tneither
(6:46 PM) james:im not seeing a guy in a red shirt, im seeing a guy in a red shirt reading a book upside down
(6:46 PM) Breakfast is the:right
but if you are yourself self centered, you will percieve other people as self centered
(6:46 PM) Breakfast is the:its the dunning kruger effect
someone who is self centered can't see it
(6:46 PM) Breakfast is the:they see themselves as actually, statistically, abnormally UN-self centered
(6:46 PM) james:i find your maladaptiveness intruiging
(6:47 PM) Breakfast is the:what about knowing things do you consider maladaptive?
(6:47 PM) james:i think your keen ability to spin perception like this an accurate cause of why you have never adaptive to life
(6:47 PM) Breakfast is the:well
(6:47 PM) james:*adapted
(6:47 PM) Breakfast is the:i just think that people are unwilling to confront that they can't know themself
(6:47 PM) james:i know myself quite well
(6:47 PM) Breakfast is the:they can never know themself
you can't
its not possible
no one can
(6:47 PM) james:yes, i can
(6:47 PM) Breakfast is the:the evidence suggests that no one can
(6:48 PM) Breakfast is the:because you are riddled, like all humans, with umpteen cognitive biases
(6:48 PM) james:evidence gathered by a layman in his apartment
(6:48 PM) Breakfast is the:among other things
evidence gathered by experts in universities and labs
(6:48 PM) Breakfast is the:that is published
but i do almost have a psych degree now
i just havent' finished yet
(6:48 PM) james:ah right, a self proclaimed psych degree
(6:48 PM) Breakfast is the:attained by self proclaimed courses at UofT
(6:49 PM) james:while spsending 3 hours every day on music and 3 hourss every day on writing
(6:49 PM) Breakfast is the:anyhow.  Your recourse when asked to aknowlege you might not know yourself, because you experience life subjectively and have an unconscious mind, which is literally unconscious, you cn't be conscious of it, is to state that somehow i'm failing at life.
(6:49 PM) james:its a wonder you sleep at all
(6:49 PM) Breakfast is the:in general
(6:49 PM) Breakfast is the:i took psych courses in my 20s
i never finished
i problby ill never finish
(6:50 PM) james:there's a reason for that
(6:50 PM) Breakfast is the:there is.
do you know what it is?
without knowing any of the particulars?
(6:50 PM) james:i can accurately speculate based on years of evidence
(6:50 PM) Breakfast is the:How accurately?
(6:51 PM) james:as accurately as my perception allows
(6:51 PM) Breakfast is the:so not accurately
(6:51 PM) james:my perception, being far more credited in this world than yourss
actually on the contrary
(6:51 PM) Breakfast is the:well, one person's perception is totally meaningless
(6:51 PM) james:that's not true at all
(6:51 PM) Breakfast is the:isnt' it?
(6:51 PM) james:its invidiual perception that are integral to group efforts
(6:52 PM) Breakfast is the:if that perception is validated by other individual perceptions
by itself, its nothing.
(6:52 PM) Breakfast is the:and if its a genuine perception, and not a guess
(6:52 PM) james:which mine constantly has been, ergo i feel confident in attributing the word 'accurate' to it
(6:53 PM) Breakfast is the:okay, so your perception of why i didnt' finish my psych degree has been validated by numerous other people who are familiar with all the circumstances
who are those others who have validated your perception?
(6:53 PM) james:funny you would try to sspin it to an illogical conclusion that I didnt reach
(6:53 PM) Breakfast is the:i'm only stating the implications of your statements
(6:53 PM) james:my statement was that my general perception had been validated sufficiently for me to say that if I were to analyze your life I could accurately sasy why you didnt finish
(6:54 PM) james:no, you are misinterpretting my statement to your own ends
(6:54 PM) Breakfast is the:your peceptions about my situation with my psych degree have been validated objectively, and your perceptions are creditd more highly than mine
you have evaluated the credit people pay our perceptions, objectively
and concluded yours are more valuable
(6:54 PM) james:than yours, yes i have
(6:54 PM) Breakfast is the:i'm interested to hear how this process occurred
what methods you used to evaluate my perceptions
(6:54 PM) Breakfast is the:without ever gathering data
without controlled experimentation, etc.
(6:55 PM) james:by obtaining success sin my endeavours where you have contintued to drift on into smaller and smaller niches of creativity until you yourself are the only known person to have any knowledge upon what you sspeak
(6:55 PM) Breakfast is the:you work as a concerige overnight in an apartment building.
that's not a bad job
(6:55 PM) james:successful perceptions are met with achievement
(6:55 PM) Breakfast is the:but its not so high and mighty that you can lord your night shift over me as proof of your intrinsic superiority
(6:55 PM) james:ah yes, my one part time job until my position at columbia university
is visited in march
(6:55 PM) Breakfast is the:until some future achievement
(6:55 PM) james:how clever of you
(6:56 PM) james:which i've also already obtained
(6:56 PM) Breakfast is the:so my tv show on adult swim
a future achievement i've obtained
(6:56 PM) james:stealing from rohitan mistry
im impressed
(6:56 PM) Breakfast is the:ahah
the novelist?
(6:56 PM) james:'swimming lessons' a short story by mistry on the emotional and social complications of adult sswimming lessonss
(6:57 PM) Breakfast is the:yeah.
what does that have to do with me?
(6:57 PM) james:the fact that i've obtained more success in my endeavours than you , and are ages are significantly different, yourss being older, suggests that indeed my perception is more 'accurate' and valued than is yours
(6:58 PM) james:ergo my statements, my perception is more accurate than yours
(6:58 PM) Breakfast is the:well, i'm not sure how you evaluate success
what do you use
(6:58 PM) Breakfast is the:notoriety?
relative esteem of one's peers?
(6:58 PM) james:societal worth actually
(6:58 PM) Breakfast is the:societal worth
(6:58 PM) james:yes
(6:58 PM) Breakfast is the:and how do you objectively evaluate the worth of every individual and job insociety?
(6:58 PM) james:worth and contributionss to the society you live in
(6:58 PM) Breakfast is the:what scale measures that?
(6:59 PM) Breakfast is the:what scale of societal worth are you referring to, and where do you rank on that scale?
(6:59 PM) james:social hierarchy and 'group' perception
i rank relatively higher than you
(6:59 PM) Breakfast is the:so within your group you're quite valued?
i dont' think anyone in my group is even aware of your existence
(6:59 PM) james:with all groupss i am more valued than are you
(7:00 PM) james:no, within the collective that makes up all groups, i am higher than you
(7:00 PM) Breakfast is the:which collective is that?
the population of the world?
do they even know of your existence?
(7:00 PM) Breakfast is the:the majority?
even .. even 1%?
(7:00 PM) james:lets examine the particulars
and again
i sasid relatively
(7:00 PM) Breakfast is the:let's take al ook at some particulars
(7:01 PM) james:i didnt sasy abosultely, did i?
(7:01 PM) Breakfast is the:society as a whole evaluates the relative worth
as you say
so they must be aware of you to pass this judgement
and aware of me
(7:01 PM) Breakfast is the:of our absolute worths
and how they relate to one another
(7:01 PM) Breakfast is the:so proceed
(7:02 PM) james:sure, a 23 year old graduate from McMaster with a degree in Life Ssciences who has published several articles in cardiology and has contributed to basic science research advancing the understanding of prostate cancer who hass been offered a position at columbia university or a 30, ssorry 29 year old graduate from the university of toronto who hass, to society? other than as I
(7:03 PM) james:have sasid exploring a niche of mussic that enables him to keep his firm hold on the past and never in fact ENTER into relevant society, and fulfill his desperate need to have some kind of knowledge and identity others do not
(7:04 PM) james:even if you were 'successful' in your endeavour to make popular music from electronic devices, how relevant is that to society that is evermore dependent on medicine?
(7:04 PM) james:ergo, my perception and worth in ssociety is greater than yourss
and in fact given your current direction is greater than yours would ever be
lesson over
(7:04 PM) Breakfast is the:Why even let people who aren't doctors live
(7:04 PM) james:again, spinning my perception once you have losst the argument
(7:04 PM) Breakfast is the:there is a bias, a cognitive bias
(7:05 PM) Breakfast is the:i can't remember tha name
but i THINK its the occupational bias
(7:05 PM) james:the argument wasnt whether everyone had a right to life, the argument was whether i am better than you, and I am
(7:05 PM) Breakfast is the:its the bias to overattribute value to one's own field
(7:05 PM) james:take it like a man
(7:05 PM) Breakfast is the:to perceive the methods and tools of that field as the correct or ultimate tools and methods to tackle all problems
(7:05 PM) Breakfast is the:and to believe that participation in that field elevates the participant above others
its nothing new
its intrinsic to the fabric of humanity
(7:05 PM) james:there iss another bias I am familiar with, its called the organs are a scarce reasource bias, in which if one heart was available and we both needed it you would die
the end
(7:05 PM) Breakfast is the:your mother would probably talk about how valuable teachers are
your dad, postmen
my dad, accountants
(7:06 PM) Breakfast is the:my mom, counsellors
my sister, game developers
(7:06 PM) james:who would  be chossen for an organ transplantation if the two of us n eeded one, you or I?
(7:06 PM) james:10 years from now
a doctor or a musician?
(7:06 PM) Breakfast is the:depends how rich i am
if i'm rich, me
if i'm poor, probably still me
(7:06 PM) james:no im talking about
(7:06 PM) Breakfast is the:i have nicer abs
(7:07 PM) Breakfast is the:i have cool clothes
(7:07 PM) james:societal worth not financial
(7:07 PM) Breakfast is the:is that how they evaluate organ transplants?
(7:07 PM) james:as expected there you go on a tangent when the battle is lost
(7:07 PM) Breakfast is the:they look at the person's worth to society as a whole?
(7:07 PM) james:yes they do
they look at the person's worth to ssociety
(7:07 PM) Breakfast is the:i have no experience with organ transplantation procedures at all
so i have no idea what they judge to be valuable.
(7:07 PM) james:you would lose
as you have now
(7:07 PM) Breakfast is the:however, i do know that if their judgements were perfect, they would be the government.
(7:08 PM) Breakfast is the:of the entire world.
if their assessment of worth was unimpeachable.
(7:08 PM) james:actually, their judgements are sound enough to operate indepdently of the government
which invalidates your claim entirely
(7:08 PM) Breakfast is the:why not replace the government?
which validates my claim entirely.
everyone operates independantly of the government, except government employees.
(7:08 PM) Breakfast is the:is that proof that their word is the ultimate truth?
(7:09 PM) james:hard to continue sniping rational when you just throw in curve balls like that all the time
(7:09 PM) Breakfast is the:well
(7:09 PM) Breakfast is the:you are attempting to establish the authority of the transplantation board's judgement on relative worth of human lives.
(7:09 PM) james:no, i am stating their ESTABLISSHED authroity oon relative worth of human lives
(7:09 PM) Breakfast is the:in order to establish it as an AUTHORITY, as an accurate assesser of the true value of a human life, you have a lot of work left to do
(7:10 PM) Breakfast is the:it's one body, that has one set of criteria.  But is it the only body?  is it the only set of criteria?
(7:10 PM) james:the work is already done, you have just failed to accept the outcome
as you have failed to accept i do not enjoy lag and the word no
(7:10 PM) Breakfast is the:they are an established authorty on distributing organs
but are their evaluations of human value applicable anywhere beyond their pervue?
(7:10 PM) Breakfast is the:are people hired and fired based on the assessment of the transplant board?
(7:10 PM) james:again, lets return to the relative nature of our worths
(7:10 PM) Breakfast is the:are they infallible, etc.
(7:11 PM) Breakfast is the:also, i believe hemophelia disqualifies you from orgna transplantation
i might be wrong, buy my cousin couldn't get a kidney becaus eof it.
(7:11 PM) james:you're a failed musician struggling for jobs
(7:11 PM) james:again, relatively speaking with respect to what we do
(7:11 PM) Breakfast is the:but you claimed that hte baord would pick you
they would not pick you
you don't qualify
(7:11 PM) james:if you're going to continue on irrational tangents you should just talk to yoursself
as i'm sure you do most of the time
(7:12 PM) Breakfast is the:your worth, due to your hemophelia, is lower than mine, due to my not having hemophelia
so before, the baord was god
(7:12 PM) Breakfast is the:now the baord is irrelevant
because their criteria disqualify you
(7:12 PM) james:that's snot what i said at all
you ujust keep spinning the conversation
(7:12 PM) Breakfast is the:but when you were not disqualified, they were the eternal truth of the universe.
(7:12 PM) james:to suite whatever sentence you've said last
(7:12 PM) Breakfast is the:i just keep pointing out what you are saying back to you
(7:12 PM) james:no you dont at all
(7:12 PM) Breakfast is the:and its frustrating you because you aren't aare of the implications of your statements
the implied axioms they are built on
(7:12 PM) james:you convert what I have said to what I have ought to said to make your point valid, and then resaid it
(7:13 PM) james:im not frustrated at all
im ssitting here in robarts laughing at you with Tia
(7:13 PM) Breakfast is the:i'm sitting here at home, not laughing at all.  Tears are streaming down my face
(7:14 PM) james:that handle on emotional maturity is quite elusive
(7:14 PM) Breakfast is the:It takes true maturity to cry when moved with such compassion for another.
(7:14 PM) james:i don't think you're selfless enough to have compassion
but nice try
(7:14 PM) Breakfast is the:i feel great cmopassion for you
(7:15 PM) Breakfast is the:in my experience, most people feel compassion for the young.
(7:15 PM) Breakfast is the:they understand how blinkered they are, having been there themselves.
how cut and dried the world appears
(7:15 PM) james:damn, and when that failed, and you were no longer able to sstay home from school for two weeks to play final fantasy and get away with it, you adopted a beard and a hat
iss that your experience of compassion for the young?
(7:15 PM) Breakfast is the:i onsly stayed home for ac ouple of days, let's not exaggerate
(7:16 PM) Breakfast is the:but rathe than throw stones at things i did when i was 15, why not throw stones at your life
is there anything in your life that you might find comperable to what you are criticizing in mine?
(7:16 PM) Breakfast is the:do you have the fortitude to point out your own flaws?
your own failings?
(7:17 PM) james:my illfavoured perception and plethora of biases dissqualifies me from recognizing them
(7:17 PM) james:remember?
(7:17 PM) Breakfast is the:then you are starting to learn
(7:17 PM) james:so i'm happy sticking to yours
(7:17 PM) Breakfast is the:i can point some out for you
your parents kicked you out
you have a crummy dead end job
(7:17 PM) james:actually i left
(7:17 PM) Breakfast is the:you live in your grilfriend's res room
(7:17 PM) james:they begged me to come back want the email forward/
(7:17 PM) Breakfast is the:your brother won't let you live with him
(7:17 PM) james:a dead end job implies i was seeking an end to that job
(7:18 PM) james:?
(7:18 PM) Breakfast is the:you resent the good fortune of others
(7:18 PM) james:aha
(7:18 PM) Breakfast is the:you grossly overestimate your own value
meaning that you are going to be prone to innumerable mistakes that you could otherwise avoid
(7:18 PM) james:becausse its esstablisshed that its more than yourss?
its a gross overestimate?
(7:19 PM) Breakfast is the:its established that, bny your own criteria, i would be chosen over you for a kidney
(7:19 PM) james:thats your only basis for tht claim
quite scientific
(7:19 PM) Breakfast is the:so by your own critera, my value is greater
that was your criterion, not mine
(7:19 PM) Breakfast is the:my criteria have never been discussed
(7:19 PM) james:actually no, my point was, that between a doctor and a failed musician
(7:19 PM) Breakfast is the:i developed no criteria
(7:19 PM) james:they would chosse a doctor
want the msn log on that?
(7:19 PM) Breakfast is the:between a man who hasn't entered medical school
not  a doctor
(7:19 PM) Breakfast is the:a man who hasn't even entered medical school
(7:19 PM) james:actually i prefaced that with 'in 10 years'
of your endeavour
(7:19 PM) Breakfast is the:we'll see if you're a doctor in 10 years.
(7:20 PM) Breakfast is the:we'll se.
(7:20 PM) james:and my endeavour
(7:20 PM) Breakfast is the:you may not be
(7:20 PM) Breakfast is the:you can't count as a success something you havent' attempted yet
(7:20 PM) james:sure i can
im ssitting on a 90% MCAT score
I could get into any school in canada i wanted
i elected to go to the states
(7:20 PM) Breakfast is the:why even go to medical school
you have a 90% mcat score
you're a doctor already
(7:20 PM) james:do other pepole find your irrationality charming?
(7:20 PM) Breakfast is the:there's no need to achieve things when you know they are inevitable, i guess, right?
(7:20 PM) james:because i find it a low level of argument functionality
(7:21 PM) Breakfast is the:well, you are the one who said you could rely on unhatched chickens
(7:21 PM) james:try harder psych degree
(7:21 PM) Breakfast is the:that you KNEW what would happen within 10 years
not that you hoped
but KNEW
(7:21 PM) james:sure, its a relative certaintiy
(7:21 PM) Breakfast is the:you KNEW what would happen in the next 10 years.
(7:21 PM) james:you are chasing other people's dreams
(7:21 PM) Breakfast is the:that's an oxymoron
certainty is not relative
its absolute
(7:21 PM) james:yes i do
(7:21 PM) Breakfast is the:i'm chasing the dreams of my father the comedian?
anyone who claims to see the future is delusional.
(7:21 PM) james:i've said that my 90% mcat score combined with my gpa and extra cirriculas
(7:22 PM) Breakfast is the:yeah, as i said, if that was a medical degree, why aren't you practicing?
(7:22 PM) james:has, with CERTAINTY, allowed me to go to any med school here
(7:22 PM) Breakfast is the:yeah
but with CERTAINTY will you succeed?
(7:22 PM) james:yes
(7:22 PM) Breakfast is the:with CERTAINTY will you be practicing?
in 10 years?
(7:22 PM) james:its the sasme material i took in undergrad
(7:22 PM) Breakfast is the:will you make no mistakes
lose your liscence
can you foresee all eventualities
if you can
why bother being a doctor
play the lottery
you'll win every time.
(7:23 PM) james:like you are?
with your life? you make it loko sos glamorous
(7:23 PM) Breakfast is the:yes, i'm playing the lottery
(7:23 PM) Breakfast is the:every day i mail a DVD to a random stranger, hoping that today will be the one who makes me famous.
(7:23 PM) james:very sasd
(7:23 PM) Breakfast is the:you know
you KNOW
that you cant' see the future
you KNOW that
(7:24 PM) Breakfast is the:you've backed yourself into an irrational rhetorical corner by claiming that, without any doubt, you can be certain that you will live exactly the life you plan
you know that
you can admit that without losing face
it was silly to claim you could know with any certainty what life would bring.
you know that
(7:24 PM) james:the point wasnt that i could see the future, the point was i am worth more to society than you are now, and in 10 years EVEN if both succeeded at our endeavours nothing would change
(7:25 PM) Breakfast is the:if both of us succeeded, i'd be rich in the states and i'd just buy a kidney on the black market, problem solved.
(7:25 PM) james:you are just trying to maniuplate me into agreeing with what YOU said I said, and not with what I in fact said
(7:25 PM) Breakfast is the:well
(7:25 PM) james:its the tactic of a coward
(7:25 PM) Breakfast is the:you , in fact, said that in ten years it was certain that you would be a dcotor
(7:25 PM) james:i should know my brother uses it too
(7:25 PM) Breakfast is the:repeating what you say back to you is cowardice?
(7:26 PM) Breakfast is the:are you displacing your antagonistic relationship with you rbrother onto me?
(7:26 PM) james:no, repeating what you think i SHOULD have said back to me is cowardice
failing to read exactly what i wrote is cowardice
(7:26 PM) Breakfast is the:i repeat only what you exactly sid
(7:26 PM) james:which iss what you have been doign this entire time
no you dont
(7:26 PM) Breakfast is the:and then demonstrate its logical end
(7:26 PM) Breakfast is the:and why what you said was irrational in the first place, by dmeonstrating its underpinning and what conclusion that underpinning must lead to
(7:26 PM) james:no, what you do is explore a tangent of an erroenous interpretation of my statement
for your own end
(7:26 PM) Breakfast is the:if you were more precise in your language and thought, it wouldnt' keep happening to you that people point out that what you say makes no sense in this universe.
(7:27 PM) Breakfast is the:language is an imprecise instrument
(7:27 PM) Breakfast is the:so you can be forgiven for that.
(7:27 PM) james:i think we both know its syou who iss inpercisse in interpreting my straight foward language
because you have in fact backed yoursself into a corner
(7:27 PM) Breakfast is the:we can all be gracious and say that its easy to misinterpret a dead set certainty that you can read the future
(7:27 PM) james:and have no where productive to take this conversation so you will explore tangents in erroneous interpretations of my logic
(7:28 PM) Breakfast is the:your straight forward language like "sure, its a relative certaintiy"
(7:28 PM) james:right
you failed to understand my repeated use of the word relative
(7:28 PM) james:and instead took a tangent to absolutes
which i did not mention at all
(7:28 PM) Breakfast is the:relative certainty
(7:28 PM) james:remember?
(7:28 PM) Breakfast is the:relative
(7:28 PM) james:etc etc
(7:28 PM) Breakfast is the:those terms contradict one another
(7:28 PM) james:relative means between you and I
who is better
(7:29 PM) james:relative does mean in terms of the whol world
which is the tangent you decided to explore
(7:29 PM) Breakfast is the:you said "Relative certainty" when i asked you "how can you be certain what the future will bring?"
(7:29 PM) james:as you had ealized far earlier you lost this conversastion
(7:29 PM) Breakfast is the:not "what is the value of you and i, as relates to the other"
you were syaing that with certainty, yet, only with relative accuracy, yet still certainty, you could predict the future
that's imprecise
(7:29 PM) Breakfast is the:also, conversations aren't contests with winners and losers
(7:29 PM) james:no, what I said iss that its relatively certain I can be a doctor
I can be one now
(7:30 PM) james:I elect to go to the states and pursue medicine at a school there
(7:30 PM) Breakfast is the:that maybe the the source of some of your inability to recognize your own irrational statements.  You perceive this conversation as a contest.
your commitment to victory is obscuring your reason.
you elect to go to the states
(7:30 PM) james:you are stating that because I chosse to take an alternative path I cant be sure of the first one, which is illogical
(7:30 PM) Breakfast is the:i dont' think that that is bad at all
i dont' dispute your choice to go to the states, or impugn it
(7:30 PM) james:Its like saying I know where jane street leads, but I want to take runnymede so I dont know where jane street leads
(7:30 PM) Breakfast is the:there's no reason not to go to the states to go to med school
(7:30 PM) james:that's what you sare saying, and thats faulty logic
(7:30 PM) Breakfast is the:no
(7:30 PM) james:that cowards usse
sure it is
(7:31 PM) Breakfast is the:actually, let me quote what i said
(7:31 PM) james:there's plenty of reasons
(7:31 PM) james:then you said ' why go to med school at all you have a 90% Mcat'
which is also illogical
(7:31 PM) Breakfast is the:Breakfast is the most important meal of the year. says (7:20 PM):
*you may not be
*you can't count as a success something you havent' attempted yet
(7:32 PM) Breakfast is the:that's what i said
(7:32 PM) james:the fact that you attempted to trap me in this purposeless box of logic is sather pathetic
(7:32 PM) Breakfast is the:you cant' count as a success something you have not attempted yet
not "if you go to the states you are a failure"
(7:32 PM) james:which is wrong
(7:32 PM) Breakfast is the:i never even mentioned you going to the states
(7:32 PM) james:it doesnt invalidate my claim at all
(7:32 PM) Breakfast is the:you are saying what you wish i had said to prove your warped point
sure it does
i didnt' say what you claim i said
(7:32 PM) james:yes you did
(7:32 PM) Breakfast is the:i didn't imply what you claim i explicitly states
show me
show me where i said, that somehow, going to the states was failure?
(7:33 PM) james:Breakfast is the most important meal of the year. says:
you've backed yourself into an irrational rhetorical corner by claiming that, without any doubt, you can be certain that you will live exactly the life you plan
Breakfast is the most important meal of the year. says:
(7:33 PM) Breakfast is the:yes
(7:33 PM) james:wrong
my life plan is to become a doctor
(7:33 PM) Breakfast is the:show me where i said anyhting about your path
(7:33 PM) james:I can do that already
(7:33 PM) Breakfast is the:in the states
(7:33 PM) james:that cheque is in hand
I elect to do something else in the states
(7:33 PM) james:should that not wok out i can come back and be a doctor in canada
(7:33 PM) Breakfast is the:and where does that come into play?
(7:33 PM) james:that cheque is in hand
(7:33 PM) Breakfast is the:show me
show me wher ei criticized that
(7:33 PM) james:within 10 years
i jsust did
(7:33 PM) Breakfast is the:within 10 years
(7:33 PM) james:Breakfast is the most important meal of the year. says:
you've backed yourself into an irrational rhetorical corner by claiming that, without any doubt, you can be certain that you will live exactly the life you plan
Breakfast is the most important meal of the year. says:
(7:33 PM) Breakfast is the:yeah
show me where that mentions the states
(7:33 PM) james:I can live my life exactly to plan
(7:34 PM) Breakfast is the:you KNOW you dont' believe that
(7:34 PM) james:sure I do
(7:34 PM) Breakfast is the:you KNOW no one's life goes according to plan
(7:34 PM) james:I have the cheque in hand
(7:34 PM) james:its like saying, I have a 100 dollar cheque
but i dont want to cash it yet
(7:34 PM) Breakfast is the:you have the chque that, when cashed, give you exactly 10 years of certainty
(7:34 PM) james:so later i cant cassh it?
(7:34 PM) Breakfast is the:if the world only contained you, a cheque, and a bank
(7:34 PM) james:just because you have no certainty in your life does not invalidate the claim i have certainty in mine
(7:34 PM) Breakfast is the:you could cash it any time
but the world contains much more
(7:34 PM) james:again you arent listening
(7:34 PM) Breakfast is the:you aren't
(7:34 PM) james:i said i can be a doctor in 10 years at will
andi  cna
(7:35 PM) Breakfast is the:and i said
you can't know what will happen in the next 10 years
(7:35 PM) james:and you cant
and that upsets syou
(7:35 PM) Breakfast is the:things can happen BEYOND your will
that you dont' have control over
your will can change
you can't know that in 10 years you will be a doctor
(7:35 PM) james:if my will changes, it doesnt discount the theoretical argument
(7:35 PM) Breakfast is the:so you are admitting then that i said nothing about you going to the states
(7:35 PM) james:that given my current endeavour and yours
I will be worth more than you
(7:35 PM) Breakfast is the:nothing about going to work at columbia
you admit that you made that up
(7:36 PM) james:this is pathetic
on your behalf
(7:36 PM) Breakfast is the:any investor knows not to expect things to stay the same.
(7:36 PM) james:all you ae doing is trying depserately to hang on to ssome misquote or statement
(7:36 PM) Breakfast is the:to plan for something 10 years in advance
and expect it to follow your projection
is not only folly
its impossible
(7:36 PM) james:why dont we get down to the heart of the matter which was a sstatement you obviousl agree with and cant handle that i am worth more than you
(7:36 PM) Breakfast is the:see
(7:36 PM) james:and that wont change
(7:36 PM) Breakfast is the:you keep telling me that i'm arguing by fallacy, misquoting you, saying you said things you didn't
(7:37 PM) james:so you can cry yoursself to sleep and be done with it
(7:37 PM) Breakfast is the:and the moment i show you that the shoe is actually on the other foot, you say "its pathetic that YOU WOULD SAY THAT"
(7:37 PM) james:you're focusing on those isssues ssos you dont have to resolutely forfit the conversation
(7:37 PM) Breakfast is the:you thin its pathetic to use the arguments that YOU YOURSELF use
only when they are used against you
(7:37 PM) james:you didnt show me any shoe i in fact showed you many sshoes
(7:37 PM) Breakfast is the:i'm still waiting to se one
either way
when you develop the capacity to see 10 years in to the future
tell me who wins the superbowl
i'll place a nice bet
(7:38 PM) Breakfast is the:you can't possibly be so arrogant that you  believe you control all circumstances and can force the ntire world to comply with your 10 year plan.
no one is that arrogant.
(7:38 PM) james:david im compassionately intruiged and concerned about your percetion as it has failed to bring you anything tanigble in your life
(7:38 PM) Breakfast is the:if you're a doctor, i'll be happy for you
(7:38 PM) james:that's compassion
(7:38 PM) Breakfast is the:if you're not, i won't blame you
(7:38 PM) Breakfast is the:life is full of accidnts, happy and unhappy
(7:39 PM) james:who said anythin about blaming
(7:39 PM) Breakfast is the:you did for the last hour or so
(7:39 PM) james:we're establishing, or rather have establisshed that my perception of reality is vastly superior to yours
(7:39 PM) Breakfast is the:either way
that is the first sign of insanity
the belief that you experience reality more accurately than other people
(7:39 PM) Breakfast is the:that your version of realty is more true than other people's
a notion propagated in the most illogical philosophies and religions
(7:40 PM) james:your perception leadss you to tinker with electronic devices in the hopes of makinig music and fame from them
(7:40 PM) Breakfast is the:you know, deeo dwn, that your verison of reality is as limited, biased, and insignificant as everyone elses
(7:40 PM) james:do you think that's a sasne perception?
of reality?
(7:40 PM) Breakfast is the:deep down, you must know that you are as small a creature as any other creature
(7:40 PM) Breakfast is the:well, i'm interested in the method you use to read my mind and find what my hopes are
(7:40 PM) james:do you think your attempt to bring upon me self realization ive already experienced will work?
(7:40 PM) Breakfast is the:you asume i make 8bit music to get famous
(7:41 PM) Breakfast is the:8bit music will never make anyoen famous
(7:41 PM) james:the fact that i have hammered home to you is your perception leadss you to folly and worthlessness in this society
mine does not
ergo mine iss worth more than yourss
(7:41 PM) Breakfast is the:right
its a point you have repeated
(7:41 PM) Breakfast is the:but not one you've established
(7:41 PM) james:you've proven ive established it
(7:41 PM) Breakfast is the:i've proven that your own criteria establish the opposite of what you set out to establish
(7:41 PM) james:by your attentive focus to the parts sof sspeech and tangents of logic in my statements
(7:42 PM) james:if you were actually sure i hadnt proven it, you would have stayed on topic
in the effort to disprove it
(7:42 PM) james:as any theory is true until somone proves it is not true
(7:42 PM) Breakfast is the:but since i dont' estimate your criteria highly, due to my vastly greater life experience and knowledge, i don't conclude that you've proven yourself worthless
i have stayed on topic
(7:42 PM) james:since you've made a pathetic attempt to prove the contrary for yourself
my theory must be true
(7:42 PM) Breakfast is the:you have blustered that you know both my capacities and goals in life
and decided for me whther i've succeeded or have hope of succeeding at what i hope to succeed at, according to you
(7:43 PM) james:you dont have vastly greater life experiences, you attempt to make an identity for yoursself out of uncleanliness and abstract music
(7:43 PM) Breakfast is the:meanwhile, has stated repeatedly that your own arguments are fallacious, but only when i use them against you
(7:43 PM) james:what greater life has that lead you to?
(7:43 PM) Breakfast is the:that your own statements are facts, unless i prove them otherwise
and that you have a greater intrisic value than me, because someday, you might be a doctor
(7:43 PM) james:no, you dont use my own arguments against me, you warp my arguments then throw the unrecognizable argument that you've created back at me
and then try to convince me its mine
(7:43 PM) Breakfast is the:ah well.  Its time for dinner.
(7:44 PM) james:i guess that's your way of saying gg
(7:44 PM) Breakfast is the:you'll conclude i'm eating now because i have in some way "lost"
(7:44 PM) james:i accept your concession
(7:44 PM) Breakfast is the:but since i've taken your nexus
i dont' se any reason to toy with you
(7:44 PM) Breakfast is the:ahaha
(7:44 PM) james:its important to be a good loser and go to dinner
(7:44 PM) Breakfast is the:the person who EATS FIRST LOSES
(7:44 PM) james:dont get tears in your food
(7:44 PM) Breakfast is the:the best part about being older is that i dont' perceive conversations as contests.
and that, in and of itself, means i win